FARM TO FOOD
Launched on September 18, 2025, the “Farm to Food” podcast is broadcast on a bi-weekly basis to increase coverage of the Chateauguay Valley’s largest economic sector - agriculture - and, of course, everyone eats everyday (at least we hope so!) so there is always a lot of interest in all things agri-food.
Whether you're a farmer, a foodie, or simply curious about where your meals come from, Farm to Food connects you to the full journey — from soil to supper. Each episode features down-to-earth conversations with local farmers, agri-food innovators, and global experts on everything from organic farming to processing, sustainability, and food security.
Recorded at the historic Ormstown Fairgrounds, the show offers real insights into Quebec’s rural communities and the people who keep us well fed. Plus, stay updated with timely agri-news and local food stories that matter.
For producers, processors, and curious eaters alike — Farm to Food is your guide to understanding how our food systems work, who makes them thrive, and why it all matters. From bumble bees and microdistilleries to the dairy industry, cash cropping, and extreme weather, we’ll explore it all.
Listen, learn, and support local – because farming isn't just for farmers — it's for everyone who eats!
FARM TO FOOD
12. Global Disruption - Local Impact
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Thank you for joining us for this latest episode of the Farm to Food podcast, presented to you by Desjardins.
Global disruption is hitting close to home. In this episode, we look at how climate shifts, geopolitics, volatile markets, and new technologies are reshaping day-to-day decisions on small and mid-sized farms across rural Quebec. From rising input costs to changing consumer habits, local food systems are being pushed to adapt - fast.
Callan Forrester hits the streets to hear how rising fuel prices are driving up food costs - and how consumers are coping.
Sarah Rennie speaks with UPA Montérégie president Jérémie Letellier about the mounting pressures on Quebec farmers, from global market swings to policy challenges that threaten long-term viability.
Organic Farmer Reid Alloway of Ferme Tourne-Sol shares why he’s moving away from fossil fuels toward electric - less about saving money, more about performance and resilience.
And David Hall of Hallacres Farm, and director with the Quebec Maple Syrup Producers federation, breaks down how rising fuel costs - and a recent syrup fraud scandal - are putting more pressure the maple industry.
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Farm to Food podcast.
We’d like to thank our sponsors for helping bring this initiative to life: the Livestock Breeders’ Association, and Quinn Farm in Notre-Dame-de-l’Île-Perrot for their promotional support.
We also wish to thank the Community Media Strategic Support Fund and the Government of Canada for their financial support for this project, as well as the Bourses d’initiatives en entrepreneuriat collectif for their contribution toward equipping the podcast studio.
This program is made possible thanks to the dedicated work of the volunteer directors on the board of Châteauguay Valley Community Information Services (CVCIS), a non-profit social enterprise with charitable status. We would love your support to help keep this podcast going.
Donations can be made at farmtofood.ca, and we can issue tax receipts for donations over $25.
Farm to Food Podcast Credits:
Hugh Maynard – Host
Jackie Rourke – Producer
Sarah Rennie – News Editor
Callan Forrester – Reporter
Stacey Pennington – Audio Production
Dianna Chycki, sales & marketing
…and of course, Farmer Phil — who’s farm-tastic!
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Farm to Food podcast.
We’d like to thank our sponsors for helping bring this initiative to life: Desjardins, the Livestock Breeders’ Association and Quinn Farm in Notre-Dame-de-l’Île-Perrot for their promotional support.
We also wish to thank the Community Media Strategic Support Fund and the Government of Canada for their financial support for this project, as well as the Bourses d’initiatives en entrepreneuriat collectif for their contribution toward equipping the podcast studio.
This program is made possible thanks to the dedicated work of the volunteer directors on the board of Châteauguay Valley Community Information Services (CVCIS), a non-profit social enterprise with charitable status. We would love your support to help keep this podcast going.
Donations can be made at farmtofood.ca, and we can issue tax receipts for donations over $25.
Farm to Food Podcast Credits:
Hugh Maynard – Host
Jackie Rourke – Producer
Sarah Rennie – News Editor
Callan Forrester – Reporter
Stacey Pennington – Audio Production
Dianna Chycki, sales & marketing
…and of course, Farmer Phil — who’s farm-tastic!
Well, hello my farmastic friends. Farmer Phil here again. Things are looking great on the farm the last week or so. Beautiful sunny days, and the last of the frost is out of the ground, and we're really starting to change gears here. We're looking at planting real soon, and we're getting the last of our orders in for seed and fertilizer and our chemicals. And I can't help but look at the bottom line on all of these bills, and oh my goodness, the prices have gone way up. The fuel is somewhere between 25 and 30% up, fertilizer about 10%, chemicals not too bad, probably somewhere around 5-10%. It's just going up and up and up. You go to the farm dealer for any parts, and it's costing you a minimum a thousand bucks for any little part. So that being said, this week's Farm to Food Podcast, all about global disruptions and local impact. It sounds a little ominous, but uh trust me, folks, it is something to uh take into consideration. And the situation we're in is something to take very, very seriously. I was talking to our financial advisor a couple weeks back. We were looking at a piece of land, and he was saying how land in our area was kind of sitting there on the market longer than it was a few years ago. There's a couple of pieces there that were sitting close to a year and still nobody biting on them. Um he's forecasting interest rates going up to compensate for all of this inflation. We're also forecasting lower commodity prices because of all the significant uh subsidies happening south of the border. And yet all of our inputs, the cost is going up and up and up. So there's gonna be some serious pencil sharpening having to happen. Um, we're gonna have to get a whole lot more efficient and some hard decisions to be made as well, and likely some foreclosures on farms going around the countryside as well. So without further ado, this week's Farm to Food Podcast.
SPEAKER_05Enjoy the Welcome to the Farm to Food Podcast. I'm Hugh Maynard, publisher of the Gleaner newspaper, the team that brings you this podcast. The Farm to Food Podcast is presented to you by Desjardets and supported by the Livestock Breeders Association and Quinn Farm. The theme of this episode is Global Disruption, Local Impact, where we take a look at the effects of the conflict in the Middle East on the agri-food chain, from the raw materials for fertilizers that have to pass through the Iranian waters of the Strait of Hormuz to the uncertainty of oil supplies that have led to a surge in oil and gas prices. Consumers have already felt the pain at the gas pumps, and farmers are about to experience the same as their tractors head out into the fields for spring seeding. And that's just the beginning as higher energy costs impact the food supply chain from processors through to supermarkets and soon will affect spending and investment decisions by consumers and farmers. Join us for this episode of Farm to Food as we talk with some farmers as they start to grapple with the global disruption to try and minimize the local impact.
Callan Forrester hits the streets
SPEAKER_00And I feel like I'm just I I just need to get what's cheapest right now, you know what I mean? Totally. I'm the exact same way.
SPEAKER_06I've been noticing that the food prices have been going up like all the time anyway. So I haven't noticed a specific difference with the or neuron. I've noticed I don't want to drive as much anymore, so I'm definitely going to more local places. Um but no, I don't think this is directly affecting, I think, everything, right? Yeah, totally. Um, I should also say that I recognize that with the not just fuel prices, but the prices of fertilizer and stuff, like I know that Canadian products in particular are going to be getting more expensive in the summer. Like there's markets I would usually plan on going to and I will still keep supporting them. Um, but I may have to buy less and maybe like less organic than I usually would have.
SPEAKER_07Um yeah, it's not something that I'm necessarily noticing, but it is something that's pretty like prominent on my mind, I think. And it's something that I'm very conscious of going into grocery stores now and knowing that it's one, gonna affect like food prices, but then also it's like gonna affect like literally anything that we get imported. And um yeah, like I don't drive, but I wouldn't be surprised if we saw like a ripple effect when it comes to other forms of transportation. It is something that could actually be very like the war could absolutely be something that fully affects like has that ripple effect. Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Has it made you check to see what products are Canadian when you're buying them? I really should.
SPEAKER_05So to start off this episode uh talking about global uh disruption and local impact, um, we're gonna have a conversation with Sarah Rennie, who's our news editor at The Gleaner. And she's been out and about interviewing various uh farmers uh that have different types of production, um, different experiences with energy um and uh how it impacts the crops that they they grow and the type of production that they have. And she's gonna fill us in on all the ins and outs of the impacts of higher oil prices, whether it's fertilizer, boiling maple syrup, or driving a tractor. Welcome, Sarah.
SPEAKER_10Aaron Ross Powell So yeah, I had a a really interesting time uh chatting with a couple of farmers. One of them was uh Jeremy Letelier, who's the the president of the Montregy Federation for the UPA. He's also a cash cropper. Uh he has a farm in the Jardin d'Anapierville, uh pretty big farm, actually. And um so you know, we we talked a little bit about the the impact of global conflicts because of course this isn't the first time this has happened. It was only four years ago that um Russia invaded Ukraine and we saw things spike and we saw, you know, worrying things come into the the season for a lot of farmers. So we talked a little bit about those impacts, but we also talked about, you know, financial strain, past difficulties, and and how that impacts farmers, especially going into the spring season, because things are still uh, you know, really up in the air. So one of the interesting things about Jeremy is that he's actually, so he's the regional president for the the entire Montregie area, which is is a vast area. It's also probably the most profitable area as far as farming in Quebec is concerned. It's the breadbasket of the province. It's where uh it's where it's happening really when it comes to agriculture. And uh as far as diversity is concerned as well. So he has a huge job right now trying to uh represent farmers uh during what is now an international crisis. But also, like I said, it's springtime, and so the farmers are are already a little bit nervous, they're a little bit worried. And uh Jeremy is also really involved in the UPA's campaign right now to have the government uh refund farmers for the the carbon tax that they they they pay on the carbon products that they're buying and using on their farms, and it's a huge cost for the farmers. So he's been very involved in that as well. So I'll let him uh I'll let him explain a little bit about the the pressures this spring.
UPA Montérégie president Jérémie Letellier
SPEAKER_10Um where he he mostly does cash cropping. So you are an obvious expert, I think, to talk to us a little bit about what's happening right now internationally, but also locally, because it's spring, and spring in general is a stressful time for farmers, I think.
SPEAKER_03Well, I would not call myself an expert, but I'm certainly uh certainly an interested party in all of this. And yes, uh it's it's it's the second time in four years really that we have such a a shock coming through. Uh first the Ukraine war four years ago, and there's a lot of similar similarities with what's going on right now. But at the same time, the the war in Ukraine, we had a huge impact as far as input costs were concerned, but there was also uh the the price of grain rose as well. Whereas where we don't have that that element right now, the the the price of grain's gone up a little, but nothing compared to what the inputs are going up right now, so it's an even more stressful situation than it was back then.
SPEAKER_10So for most farmers, do they sort of lay in their supply of fertilizer, that sort of thing, in the fall? Do they sort of book those prices in, or are farmers actually actively buying their fertilizer now?
SPEAKER_03Uh the there's it's different models for everybody. Uh I like to buy about, I would say, 60 to 70 percent of my fertilizer during the the the fall. Try to uh set the price at least half-cost certainty on that volume. And then the rest we we we just see what kind of the what are the conditions coming up. But a lot of farmers are they they like to wait at the last minute. Sometimes you get good deals out of it. This year obviously will not be that kind of year. When it's a matter of price, it's one thing. What's in a matter of uh are we even going to get the supply needed? That's a whole other question. What I understand right now is that producers that are faithful to their dealers, the dealers will try to do what they can to fulfill the needs. But if you're the kind of farmer who likes to go from one dealer to another and get the best price all the time, this is the year when it might come back and uh and bite you.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_10Okay, so that's adding to a lot of uncertainty then for farmers right now.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. Yeah. Uh I I don't know what's going to happen. We we're we're hearing a lot of things, there's a lot of rumors going around, and even considered some deers are, you know, bashing other dealers, uh saying these guys they're not gonna able to to to get there the the volume needed. Uh you don't know what to believe. Uh but I think worst case scenario you might see a big uh transfer of corn production to soybeans production because soybeans obviously don't don't need doesn't need that much fertilizers compared to corn compared to corn, but I don't know. Uh people don't like to put to mess with their rotation too much. So uh I think a lot of farmers will try to go a they go a a lot of length to to to to keep their rotation the way they're going, but you have to be able to to get your inputs as well.
SPEAKER_10Well and of course last year last year it was such a a a delayed season that a lot of people were switching their their rotation around last year too, just because it was so wet they weren't able to get onto their fields necessarily in time to be planting um corn again. So it's uh i i i I mean, a stressful start to the season compounded by weather. It must be an anxious time.
SPEAKER_03It is and that's a great point you're making, Sarah. And the the other thing is that last year, as you said, difficult spring, there was a drought during the summer, a lot of producers do not have a good year. It was uh you know, yield-wise, it was a difficult situation. There might be some kind of a shortage of cash available for a lot of farmers at a time where fertilizer costs and diesel costs will be at an all-time high. So that might uh trigger some difficult decisions as well.
SPEAKER_10And I guess I mean farmers aren't necessarily seeing those oil costs going up, the you know, the diesel expenses going up quite so high just yet because they're not filling their tractors, but that's coming and it's coming very soon. Um and we're getting extremely mixed messages as far as you know when this war might end, if this war is gonna end, whether the strait is gonna open, and whether this is gonna have any kind of a positive impact on oil prices here. What is that like? Just I mean, as the president of the UPA, obviously you're having to manage anxiety at a l at a at a regional level. But for a a cash cropper, a farmer who knows that you're gonna need a lot of diesel this year.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, uh well you you you go you roll with it. I mean you if if the need is there, you know, you you you you contact your banker, try to do get an extension on your margin of credit, uh try to uh uh lengthen some levels. You know, th there are some possibilities. The the the big advantage that cash croppers like myself have. You know, if if you don't have already have some kind of cash on hand available. You know, we we got so much guarantees because of the the value of land that usually you're able to come up with a solution to a liquidity short shortcoming, but you know, you can't do that four or five years in a row either. I mean at some point you have to get some some profitability and now it's it's going it's difficult to see how it ha it could have happened last year, and even two years ago was not the best year either. And uh now this year for the third street year it looks like it might be a difficult one, at least as far as the cost of production is concerned. So there's a lot of riding in the balance right now.
SPEAKER_10Aaron Powell Maybe we could talk a little bit about some of the campaigns then that the UP has been running to try to make life a little bit easier on farmers. Um one of them relates directly to, you know, the the costs of oil, gas, carbon in general, and the government's willingness or or or lack of willingness to always sort of play play ball with the farmers, maybe.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well yeah you know there's the old issue about the the carbon tax and the uh carbon stock exchange. And you know, we're we're not having our heads in the sand. We we understand the reason why such measures were put in place. We we do have an issue with climate change and uh how human activity is causing it. We're all aware of that. I would say I would say that's why, at least in Quebec when the the carbon stock exchange was put in place, there wasn't that much of a blowback to it. You know, people uh understood that there was you know, action had to be taken at some point. And I think the the the the the mindset back then was, you know, if we get the ball rolling, Quebec uh gets in it, California gets in it, uh maybe other jurisdiction will join as well at some point. And you know, we're gonna be a real, really efficient carbon exchange system that will work and that will help lower the the carbon emissions. And uh, you know, ten years on, it's not all would happen. You know, politically the exact opposite has happened. In the United States, I don't think it's ever been farther from being possible to achieve that. In Canada we had a carbon tax and it's been uh abandoned, you know, but there's no political will right now, I think, to bring it back. So what happens is that we, you know, uh competitivity-wise, we're we're we're definitely short exchange to the tune of five hundred five hundred and fifty million dollars over the last ten years just for Quebec farmers. Uh so at some point, you know, you you understand our responsibility uh socially, but at the same time we've you gotta be profitable at some point. We're running businesses. We are in competition with all of North America, so uh the the the carbon uh exchange system as it's designed right now is not sustainable for farmers. You know, you we're we're spending a lot of money in a system where it is designed to uh develop alternatives to using carbon fuels, and we don't have those alternatives. Electrical electric tractors won't be available tomorrow. All those costs, uh they they just hit our bottom line. And what and the other provinces of the other states uh in the United States, they don't have that. So so that's why it's been we had a mandate to make it a priority within the Federation to solve that issue, to get a reimbursement on the the um amount of money that we send to the carbon exchange system. It's been over a year, it's a lot of work. You gotta understand we have to understand that when that was uh when we received a mandate to make it a priority, it was right after the uh the federal election. And uh the provincial government, their reaction to that was adopting a unanimous motion saying that we're not changing everything. We keep on going within the uh our present system. That's when farmers just gave us a clear message that you know you can we can't go on like that. We can't be at such a disadvantage with our neighbors. So we need some liquidity, we need some cash put back in the farms. Some results have been a thing, but you know, we're saying last year we sent $85 million to the system as you know, as the farming community as a whole in Quebec. Uh the government announced uh $30 million that went back only to cash crop farmers. So even for uh us cash crop farmers, it it's not it's not nearly close to be the amount of money that we sent. Any other sector of activities, they they don't get any of that money. Uh we do have a commitment from the both both candidates at uh to be prime minister next week. So uh Mrs. Flichett and Mr. They both said that they would give us uh total and permanent reimbursement to that, to to uh to the cash that we sent to the system. Uh how long is it going to take place? Uh how long will how long will it take them to put that in place? We we've been very clear with our message that we can't spend another season with that disadvantage. It has to be a priority right after they get in office. Whoever wins, you ha the other person has to take care of that issue right away. Because otherwise it's another $80, $85 million that we're send sending to a system that's not bringing us any money back.
SPEAKER_10So do you have any sort of uh numbers or a way of sort of explaining like what does that mean for an individual farm? Because the farms aren't necessarily paying this tax directly, right? It's being handed down to the farms.
SPEAKER_03Aaron Powell Exactly. The system is designed so that the great the the the the biggest editors are supposed to to receive the invoice. But what they do what they're doing is bidding their customers. We are so such customers, and we can't bid it back to the to uh to our our own customers because we're on uh on an international system, you know, where we we we have the competition from the other uh jurisdictions and they don't have that tax, so they would just flood the market with their own grain. So so so we're we're stuck with that. As far as numbers are concerned, it for it's it's about ten to twelve cents a liter of diesel as far as uh natural gas or propane. It's about a quarter of the invoice right now. So uh, you know, a business that would pay, let's say, twenty thousand thousand dollars natural gas for drying their grain or eating their greenhouse or uh eating their their their poultry barn, uh about five thousand dollars would go uh straight to the system. So on average in Quebec we're talking about eight to ten thousand dollars per farm. But obviously here in Multi DG where the farms generally are bigger, a lot of cash crab farmers, a lot of grain drying, that number is can that number can go up quite quickly, you know, uh multiplied by three, four, or five variables.
SPEAKER_10And so in a year when we're talking about oil prices potentially uh you know, they're high right now, we're talking about them going even higher potentially. Having this, like you said, having this sorted at the provincial level with the government is is uh must be one of the main priorities right now for the the Federation.
SPEAKER_03Aaron Ross Powell It is the main prior priority. You know, and now it will just be an adjustment to bring to you know maybe compensate for the increase in all our price. But even before the war in Iran, and we were in a in a in a competitive disadvantage no matter what. So so it is a I think it's an emergency really to to to solve that issue, give a break to farmers, uh having a stop contributing to a system that is designed to work differently than that's right.
SPEAKER_10And for farmers, I think the important thing to talk about too, maybe is that they're having to make these investments at the start of the season. Obviously, fertilizer needs to go into the ground right away. As soon as you're you're starting your season, you're starting to, you know, fill your tanks with diesel, you're getting your tractors on because you've got to prepare your your fields and then you need to start seeding right away. Um these investments are things that are being made upfront right away, and then you don't know what the season has in store, and then you really don't know what you're gonna be able to actually charge at the end of the year because again you're on an international market, and like you said, the war in er in Ukraine changed you know grain prices significantly. So how how does the UPA help farmers to deal with that?
SPEAKER_03Uh market fluctuations, uh uh unfortunately there's not much we can do. You know, if if we were uh under a supply management system or something like that, those conditions would be totally different. But you know, as a union we we we can intervene on many levels, but the high price fluctuations, the effect it has on market, you know, there's been some measures put in place. We we we've done we uh we've put a lot of pressure on the federal government uh so that it could increase, and it did actually, it's been announced this week, increase the uh anticipated payments, I would call it. You know, the the government fund the interest on a b on a on a loan of uh $250,000. That that limit was $100,000 before. Now we've got an extension to $250,000 where you can uh get a loan to your bank for input, fertilizers besides uh a few. And you don't have to pay the interest on that within the the upcoming year. So that's one measure that we have, but it's not bad. It's a it's a pretty good break. But it's not what's going to change uh whole lot of the bottom line if fuel keeps increasing and it's double the cost that it was last year. I mean at some point we'll have to uh support that cost and uh try try to make the best out of it no matter even it's gonna be very difficult.
SPEAKER_10Aaron Powell I think that's when we can sort of talk about the resilience of farmers too, because there's I mean, e even at the very small level that we are on our farm with just, you know, a a couple of acres, you know, the anxiety levels are there in spring. But yeah, you just have to keep going.
SPEAKER_03It's a way of life. It's not a it is a business, but if you see it as a pure business expecting a ten to twelve percent, you know, profitability rate, you know, it's never gonna be like that. You might have that one good year out of ten that You almost have to rein in your expenses no matter what, if even if there are needs everywhere on your farm, because you have to keep in mind that two or three years from now, it's not going to be like that anymore, and you better have some reserves on you. And that's for an established farm. When it's a a farm that's just getting going, that's not even five or ten years old. I mean, how do you do that? You don't have those those kind of assets that make you uh that help you go through a tough situation. So uh yeah, it's a stressful situation, it's a stressful situation for my farm, but I'm a I'm one of the lucky ones. I mean, my my dad was there before me. You know, we we we've got a good transfer situation for a farm that's trying to establish itself. That's uh an order of magnitude tougher than it is right for for the others.
SPEAKER_10Aaron Powell And so I imagine younger farmers too who are who are looking at you know the last few years, like you said, the last few years have been complicated, they've been difficult. You know, the there are so many positive and wonderful things about farming.
SPEAKER_03Aaron Powell Yeah. That's uh you know, we're my son is 16, he's going to McDonald's college next year, he's beginning. So my nephew is at the ITAQ this year. So so we're our objectives throughout the years when they were growing up was always to make it look fun. You know, you don't bring up numbers when they're eight, nine, ten years old. But try to see what kind of life that we can have, that we're not just always working 365 days a year, you know, the the there's a possibility. You you can have some vacations at some point. You can uh have a fun lifestyle doing that. So the it's worked for those two. I mean, uh so far they look interested coming back to the farms, but at the same time, since a couple of years we've been telling them, you know, you you've gotta manage, you've got to learn how to to how to count. And you you know, you have to understand that numbers matter. They they they're very important on a farm. You can't just be thinking, you know, I'm gonna get the biggest tractor and the newest equipment, and I'm gonna be so much more productive. It doesn't work like that. You have to manage on a much uh you have to be much more focused about managing every single uh single expense uh account on your farm. Doesn't take the fun out of it, but it's it's obviously a big challenge that goes along with it.
SPEAKER_10No, budgeting for budgeting is no fun for anybody.
SPEAKER_03Some some like it, but uh yeah, uh oftentimes it's uh it's not uh it's not a usual combo to have somebody who's you know likes working with tractors and mechanics and working in the fields and at the same time being in the office calling 12 suppliers to get the best price. Obviously, it's not a it's not a reflex that everybody has.
SPEAKER_10It's an interesting i it's also it must sort of be an interesting moment in agriculture right now because we're starting to see so many changes come in with technology, so many um influences. You know, there's there's drone seeding now, there's you know, GPS, the GPS systems that are being used now for seeding and for, you know, even just looking at your soil and those sorts of things. And then we have something that happens and it's so far away. Um you know, from for most people it's hard to imagine just how far away Iran actually is. Aaron Ross Powell Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And that it it shows that in a system like ours, where we're we're we're we can't we're not out of supply management, we don't have any guarantees about the prices that we're going to get, every single event has an impact and can have a deep impact. And you know, a few years back, yeah, you know that there's been volatility before about the the price of oil. It was we used to joke that you know a butterfly flaps a swing it in Nigeria and the barrel of oil will go out five dollars. Now we have a war in Iran. So that's that's the worst outcome that could come out of it. So where it's gonna stop, we don't know. Is it stressful? Yes, it is. Are we are we gonna keep going? Yes, we're going keep gonna keep going no matter what. And you know, when push comes to shove, as I said, the one security that we have is that we have a lot of assets that we can finance in an emergency period, but it can't be an ad. And uh you know, we we do have some uh some feedback, you know, from uh financial institutions right now that I'm saying saying you you you would be surprised at the amount of farmers right now who are on interest-only payments right now, not paying capital or refinancing. Uh and it's it's obviously alarming. You know, last year was the first year that the actual net revenue for farmers as a whole in Quebec was negative. You know, there there were some line years in the back, but to to be uh below zero for the first time, that's a that's that's a really alarming signal. And it's not one that I'm sure our political elected people are uh aware of or understand the importance of it, or or they're so drowned with other priorities within our society. Uh our President Martin Cal always says that, you know, less than half less than one percent of the budget, provincial or federal, is going back to agriculture and uh the uh the agro industry. And it doesn't really make sense. You know, other countries within you know our the Western Emmer are much closer to two percent. So so so we're uh we're pretty much underfunded. We're we're cutting on research right now. You know, it's it's it's uh I understand that there has to be some priority established by the government is cutting in research in agriculture that you know eventually should secure our uh food safety. Is that a good is that a good way to go? You know, and uh and not many people ask that question right now.
SPEAKER_10And I think that most consumers, most people in the general public who aren't on farms don't come from farming communities, also might not realize because farmers generally speaking, you know, they've they they have a lot of land, they have a lot of tractors, so there is that assumption then that there's money.
SPEAKER_03Aaron Powell Yeah, there's this perception for sure. And the other thing is that they don't have to think about it usually. You know, the the the grocery store is always full. And you know, that that's actually this morning. There's this headline in the journals that's in the the paper that's saying, uh, you know, I think it's Smith Oh who has a shortage of vegetable right now. And you're thinking, okay, just one day and it's making headlines. Imagine if it was like that for a month, or if you're waiting for imports from other countries to come in and they would be five times the price that they are right now. Is that going to light conscience within our society? You don't want to get there. You want the government to act before we reach that kind of level. So I think we've been as a syndicate, I think we've been trying very hard to put that message through that we can't just depend on imports of products that might not have even have been uh grown uh with even close the the conditions that we have to grow in uh here and with kind of close to the regulations that we have to do it here. You know, people are not aware of that. They're looking for a price and with good reason, but at some point, you know, the importance of having a a dynamic and vibrant agriculture. I think it's a concept that it's much more accepted almost everywhere than it is here because people isn't, you know, even their ancestors have never really suffered that kind of situation.
SPEAKER_10Aaron Powell Yeah, and it's it's it's again that goes back to the the competitiveness of our farms versus you know what we're importing. And like you say, the standards. If the standards aren't the same, then our farmers are disadvantaged again.
SPEAKER_03Well, yeah, I mean you you you have to you know the citizen will go to the grocery store and he sees uh any kind of vegetable or garlic or whatever. I have a garlic example in my personal. I thought it was so uh so telling, you know, that there was Quebec garlic at four dollars and there was China garlic at one dollar. It it traveled halfway across the world to be sold four times less uh at a lesser price than than the one that we I don't even think the producer might be profitable at four dollars. So do people ask themselves why it's like that or just they ain't thinking that they're that the Quebec farmers are trying to gouge them? No, it's it's really in you you know it's era, it's not the way it is. We're all just making what we can to to even break even. So all those uh all those regulations that we have to to comply with, all those uh the all those uh you know weather conditions that we have to deal with as well that that make our life much com more complicated in my in other countries, other jurisdiction, the people is not necessarily aware of it, and because the voting people not is not necessarily aware of it, it's not a priority for priority for the political world, and uh it's a huge challenge for us to to to to change of mindset.
SPEAKER_10Food security is a huge priority.
SPEAKER_03It should be. And y you know, my my grandparents were from Normazi in France. So they lived through World War II, the the the the the uh the D-Day and all the you know the the whole country by 1945 the whole country was destroyed, and the only way that all those people and you're talking about a region a few million people there. You know they lost everything, you know, the the Germans destroyed literally everything, you know. Uh uh uh there were no livestock, there was no buildings up left, you know, there were everything was down, so the only way they can survive is is that because they still had their land and they could grow uh food on it and they they managed to survive for a couple of years because before everything could go back to uh to to some normality. And we've never had that kind of event here for the last 250 years. So uh it's not something that we are aware of that could happen. We haven't had you know real living people telling us it was that bad, and you uh you you have to be able to to to uh have food security all the time, and therefore we don't have any policies to ensure that. The way they have in Europe, the uh political economic community which has been amputated somewhat over the last few years, but it's still there to to support the farmers in a much more direct way than we do have here.
SPEAKER_10Trevor Burrus And of course the Mont Eiji is the breadbasket of Quebec.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, exactly. So the you know, the as far as uh crop production is concerned, we have sixty percent of it here in the in Multigi, in a very small territory. When you look at a map of Quebec, Monty is not necessarily the biggest region, but it's the one with the the you know the best soils and the best climatic conditions to get some growth. So that's where our vegetables come from as well. You know, we we are very dynamic. We we do have a lot of farmers, but we are in a small region that you said it you know feeds uh or is responsible for a lot of the production that feeds nine million people. You know, the I think it's recognized in the localities, but as far as the the the the biggest urban areas, even in multi-g, you know, the suburbs of Montreal, uh I don't think they are aware of that reality.
SPEAKER_10Aaron Powell Yeah. It's it's certainly unfortunate. But yeah. So I think maybe we can sort of look ahead, hope spring is gonna come, hope it's not gonna be too wet and that we can get our yields.
SPEAKER_03That's that's about the thing. We we haven't approached that. But last year was a difficult fall as well. So there's a lot of soil preparation that hasn't we haven't been able to do. So we we were we are ex hoping for uh an an ice spring even more than we do uh in other years so far, not so good.
SPEAKER_10Well, yeah. Some some some sunny days where it doesn't rain, and let's anyway, let's keep our fingers crossed.
SPEAKER_03But if you know the right person to talk to to get that, yeah.
SPEAKER_10No. I think uh I'd be the most popular person in Quebec if I knew we would make the weather change. So but anyway. Thank you so much for this. It's it's it's been a lot of fun. It's great to talk with you.
SPEAKER_03Well, thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_05So that was the point of view from Jeremy Letelier, who's the president of the Union des Producteurs Agricole in the Monterrey region, and also a cash cropper. And by cash cropper we mean someone corn, wheat, and soybeans uh as a as a commodity. And so now we're gonna move on to looking at other types of farms and in particular smaller um alternate productions like organic and low input. Um and Sarah has been uh having some conversations with uh a farm uh just west of Montreal, and they said that's been doing some innovative things.
SPEAKER_10Yes, I was very fortunate that I was able to catch Reed Alloway, um, who is sort of the he's the handyman at the Ferm Tonne Salle, uh which isn't they said uh they are uh a really interesting uh community-supported market garden, uh hundred percent organic, and they've been at this for many, many years, um, over 20 years, and they've really worked incredibly hard to just build resilience into their farm, but market insulation as well. So they've been doing a lot of uh uh work to reduce their dependence on oil and gas. So Reed, luckily, likes to tinker, and he's really good with small engines. So he's been able to convert a lot of their machinery, a lot of their their weeders, their small tractors, two-wheeled tractors um into uh fully electric implements for the farm. And um and it has really helped. Um certainly it helps to buffer them in a situation like this year. Um, but at the same time, you know, they uh are dealing with the same thing that all uh small market gardeners are dealing with, and that is transport. And so the other thing that's really interesting about this farm is that they tried to really reduce their their footprint when it comes to transport. And so they have one of the very first um electric, fully electric delivery vans that was created, and they crowdfunded to to get that. And it's uh it's a really interesting and quite a powerful story and really empowering for the rest of us small market gardeners to know that there's there's things that we can also be doing. So he's uh there they are uh certainly um people to watch at uh at Tonessa. And so I'll let Reed explain a little bit more about what they've been doing over the last 15, 20 years.
Reid Alloway of Ferme Tourne-Sol
SPEAKER_10Uh I'm here with uh Reed Alloway from the Ferme Tonne-Salle in Les Cerres. He's known kind of as the handyman at the farm. Um and we're gonna have a quick chat about uh oil and spring. Hello.
SPEAKER_11Hello.
SPEAKER_10So how is spring going? For you guys, it's not been an easy one.
SPEAKER_11Well, it's slow, but uh we're now twenty years into running this farm, and I'm finally coming around to the fact that March is not part of spring. March is part of winter, and you can fool yourself all you like, but it doesn't care. So you better off to just accept that March is going to be wintry on and off until the very end, and then hope for better weather in April. But uh still spring is the time of year when farmers when hope spring's eternal and you haven't made any crucial mistakes yet, and the possibility of perfect weed control and exceptional yields and trouble-free systems, these are all still possibilities in in March and April. So uh it's a time of optimism when reality is uh is still a distant and uh and ignored possibility.
SPEAKER_10Yes, that is very optimistic. Um I guess this spring has also been a little bit interesting because we have seen um some things that might have ramped up anxiety a little bit more, uh just as far as international uh affairs are concerned. But um Maybe we can talk a little bit about how that's potentially impacting the farm as far as uh, you know, uh another war in the Middle East, oil prices are concerned, Strait of Hormones that is making fertilizer deliveries very difficult, those sorts of things. And maybe we can talk a little bit then about how that's not necessarily such an impact on this kind of farm.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, so our farm is a a relatively small but very busy farm. Uh we employ almost 20 people, but we only operate on uh about 15 acres total. Um and we've done a lot of things over the years to try to make the farm more resilient. And so we're we're not immune to the the the kind of problems buffeting the agricultural economy this year in particular. Um, but we're a little bit insulated uh primarily by our marketing arrangement, which is direct consumer marketing through weekly vegetable subscription service, uh often called CSA or Community Supported Agriculture. And uh that plus our farms seed enterprise, which also sells primarily direct to consumers. And uh by having these relationships with local families, uh we are to a degree we're we're kind of protecting ourselves from market fluctuations, but we're also significantly in a year like this, we're protecting them because we set our pricing for this year's vegetables and seeds uh six or more months ago. And as such, when prices for uh either commodities or or grocery store prices for vegetables or seeds go up, they typically aren't reflected in our prices rapidly. And folks who have made the decision to buy from our farm can sometimes end up with a dramatic cost savings annually because they're basically getting what we thought was the fair price for it last year. And uh and we're also trying to keep the farm stable and then pass on the savings to local families because that's our our mission is to serve them and feed them, not not necessarily to buy and turn inputs into uh outputs.
SPEAKER_10But speaking of you know, inputs, that sort of thing, you guys do have certain things that are running on oil, that sort of thing on the farm, greenhouses, some tractors. But you've also done a lot of work to kind of move yourselves away from a dependence on oil and gas. Can we talk about that a little bit?
SPEAKER_11Yeah, so it it largely grew out of a uh personal interest and uh a kind of improved performance targets rather than so much uh diminishing our oil consumption because a small farm like ours doesn't actually consume that much petroleum annually. And so the the cost savings don't usually justify uh the trouble and expense associated with converting to various types of electrification. Uh for instance, for for greenhouse heat, we have a small seedling greenhouse, but we've always done our best to organize our planting calendar and build insulated germination chambers within and optimize our heating schedule to use the least amount of energy possible. And we've saved so much energy in those regards that it hasn't actually been worth switching away from the oil furnace, which is our forced air heating system for that greenhouse. The amount of heating oil consumed for the 700 odd families that we feed out of that greenhouse is quite trivial. And the cost requirement to switch to biomass or electric or some other uh renewable-based heating system couldn't be justified for the we've done better optimizing than uh than in replacing. But in other places like our delivery vehicle, we managed to replace it with uh purely electric delivery truck four years ago. And uh I think this will be its fourth year in service. We've finished three whole seasons of deliveries where uh our entire farm fleet, fleet of one, is a hundred percent electric for our road-going vehicles, and all of our vegetable deliveries for the last three years have been without any uh any fuel expense, which is more significant because that was the single biggest fuel consumer on our farm, uh dramatically more than there are our four diesel tractors or the the little bit of heating that we have to do in that seedling greenhouse, even after all of our optimization.
SPEAKER_10Aaron Powell So maybe we can talk a little bit more about the elect truck, because of course that was uh incredibly innovative. Four years ago, there weren't very many delivery trucks that were electric, I'm assuming, and I think you guys ran a campaign around trying to get this.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, so we we enlisted the assistance of our farm supporter network through a crowdfunding campaign to bridge the last bit of a gap between what it was going to cost us to go electric versus what it would have cost us to just buy a secondhand diesel sprinter or transit cube van. And as such, it didn't have to come out of our payroll and operating budget, uh, and we were able to switch to electric at a time when it was less uh straightforward. In 2018, we started planning how we were going to move to our next vehicle being purely electric, knowing that the technology was plenty mature, but there had been a handful of uh of delivery van makers and light truck manufacturers who had gotten started, but the market was never mature enough for them to survive, so they had all gone bankrupt one by one. And we were fortunate to find a uh a retrofit company in Varennes, Quebec called Ecotuned Automobile, uh, which has since been large now. A controlling stake in Ecotuned is is owned by Girardin for the they're using the same drivetrain that our truck runs, uh, or a mu a new version of it to run uh 15 passenger school buses and 20 passenger school buses on a Ford E450 chassis. And so that's the bulk of Ecotunes business, but they started out offering conversion services and uh and bolt-in like full conversion kits for E and F series Ford trucks, and we convinced them to do one for us with a little bit of a little bit of arm twisting, but Andy was really uh he was really sweet about it. He said it's really fun to talk to someone who's actually engaged, who wants to like operate the truck himself, herself, run it as their own vehicle rather than just talking to accountants who are looking for a PR campaign win. So we had a really nice relationship working with them. And then through the support of our CSA members and friends and other folks who found this an inspiring initiative, we were able to crowdfund about the last $20,000 so that it didn't have to come out of our salaries or our staff and we were able to make that that change and kind of kind of uh try to lead by doing and uh and provide a demonstration that this part of the transition was possible. Like if it's possible for a small organic vegetable farm that really has zero R and D budget and minimal margins on everything, if we can do it, other people should be able to to move away from their their diesel and gas powered delivery vehicles. And like you said, that really was like as far as footprint is concerned, transport for your farm really was sort of the the the the biggest Yeah I think that uh moving from the converting the truck I think I think it was basically halved our our carbon footprint for the farm and it was obviously the the the first place that we should put our our energies in terms of decarbonizing. And it also means that we're completely immune to price hikes for fuel for the single biggest consumer. We pay for electricity the rates are tend to be a little bit more stable for obvious reasons. And uh it's been a significant cost savings in that regard. I don't think we do enough kilometers in the year to totally justify the the conversion of the truck financially but that's because we designed our farm around farming and feeding the local community none of us got into farming because we wanted to be behind the wheel of a delivery vehicle and so we have very short delivery runs which lend themselves well to electric power but also it means that the truck doesn't totally pay for itself or pencil out uh fiscally because we don't drive it that much, which is great because we don't particularly like driving. We prefer farming.
SPEAKER_10Yeah. And I remember when it you know when it was first developed and it was just sort of, you know, you guys were just talking about it and starting to talk about it. It really was innovative in the sense that there weren't a lot of farms that were pushing for this kind of development. Like you said now we've seen it, it's it's part of the law.
SPEAKER_11School buses now have to be electric, these sorts of things so I think we'll see it maybe develop faster and Yeah well nowadays you can go to a Ford dealer and say hey I want to buy an electric transit cube van and they'll say sure I'll just order you one. It'll probably be three months. Whereas that wasn't the case when we started this and uh and it was exciting enough and innovative enough that we were surprised to find among our funders for the crowdfunding campaign a bunch of our peers who run vegetable farms who really don't have money to give to crowdfunding campaigns but who were so excited about the prospect of one of us switching to battery electric delivery that they were donating to our crowdfunding campaign to encourage us because we've all been keen to see progress made in this main point, recycled vegetable oil, those kinds of things. So I think it it is certainly part of this I'm not sure if it's fair to say that all CSAs at this point are an alternative kind of farming but certainly it's a different mindset to like the larger Yeah I think it's a type of farming that has attracted uh maybe not universally but to a significant extent people who have a uh significant environmental sensibility and ecological concerns at their at the core of their business decision practices as well as their their life choices. And so I would think that they would be overrepresented in the early adopters of electric vehicles or electric heat pumps for greenhouse heating and cooling or any of the technologies that that may be helpful in in reducing our our climate impact to say nothing of all the organic farming practices, the reduction of synthetic inputs, the complete obviation of synthetic nitrogen, uh the use of cover crops and extended crop rotations to to make our farms more healthy and resilient without depending on external inputs.
SPEAKER_10And so maybe just one final question. I think you know I've also heard that you you know you you kind of like to tinker a little bit and so some of the smaller tractors things like that have maybe been converted into electric on the farm, those sorts of things. Understanding it was never I don't think any of us imagined another Gulf War coming up. But do you get to kind of sit back now and not gloat? But do you get to sit back and be happy a little bit?
SPEAKER_11No I'm I'm trying very I'm far from smug about it. I'm just pleased that um I've been fortunate enough particularly working on a bigger farm with a big management team I've had the opportunity to to follow my excitement and interest in uh electric conversion projects and as you said convert most of the small machines on our farm to battery electric and to learn a whole lot about battery systems and I'm now working part-time for Tyson Tillage equipment which is a Canadian farm equipment manufacturer making weeding and other tools for small farms and Ryan Tyson and I are actively working on electric traction units that will be on the Canadian market in the years to come. And it's really a matter of making things better for small farmers by leveraging the performance of battery electric systems. It's almost as though the the environmental benefit is ancillary and the protection from geopolitical turmoil is a nice benefit, but it's hardly the motivating factor. The goal is to make farms more resilient and there isn't a single converted machine on our farm that we could go back to using a combustion engine because every single one of them has been so dramatically improved that from a performance standpoint, no one on our farm would tolerate it if I brought a small machine onto the farm that had a combustion engine. They would just refuse to use it because we've all we've all tasted what the future of farming looks like and it is quiet and smooth and accelerates and decelerates with no effort and gives you incredible control and precision and power at your fingertips and none of us want to go back to clutches and belts and noise and exhaust.
SPEAKER_09So the exhaust in a greenhouse that's uh that that's where it gets you.
SPEAKER_11Yeah. We're still running several diesel tractors for uh uh the bulk of our field work but everything under fifty horsepower has been converted and uh I'd do the big ones too if I was independently wealthy and had time to burn, but uh just can't can't bring myself to do it and there's no way for it to make financial sense. Though if we can get oil to four hundred dollars a barrel, you know there might be uh there might be more of an argument for it. Hopefully we don't have to go that route soon.
SPEAKER_10Yeah but as far as you're concerned the future of small farming especially is electric.
SPEAKER_11Yes, absolutely. Every small machine every passenger car most delivery vehicles if you're not doing 300 kilometers a day and if you are maybe maybe you should be doing your deliveries with someone else running a larger vehicle. I don't know. The yeah small machines are so dramatically better uh better for you better for the farm better for the environment and more pleasant to operate.
SPEAKER_05So yeah the that transition is already done on our farm and there's definitely no turning back so that was some uh interesting input from Reed Alloway who's from the Ferme Tournesol an organic cooperative uh farm in uh Laissez just west of Montreal. And so now we're gonna follow this up with something not quite the same but very topical and that's uh uh wrap up on the maple syrup season. Um we're gonna go uh back and have a few words from David Hall who we interviewed a few weeks ago at the beginning of the season.
SPEAKER_10He's with the Maple Syrup Producers Association and he's gonna talk about uh uh of course the the cost of oil which is uh prime input to producing maple syrup and of course the famous story about the adulteration of the maple syrup uh from a producer in Santa Cruz awesome yeah and David was a little surprised to hear from us again I think but I said you know we really wanted to have uh you know a an expert come on and and when we had talked to him the last time the season hadn't even started yet um and this season has turned into a really long very unpredictable roller coaster ride of a maple syrup season and uh so we wanted to go and talk to him again. He said, you know it's it's been very unpredictable. We had a bit of a run in March, then it went completely dormant for about two weeks, came back on and then for the last two weeks this app has been running like a faucet and you know they've they've been trying to catch up and so it's it's a very strange syrup season this year. One of the positives is that the sugar content's actually really high. We can finally call it a sweet season. Up until two weeks ago I think they were going to call it something else but uh it's definitely looking like it's gonna we're gonna have syrup anyway to come out of this, which is uh really good because at this point the demand is so high around the world that if they don't have good seasons, you know, we're we're looking at shortages. So he had a and I had a great chat too. Um I didn't realize so many maple syrup producers are still using oil fired evaporators. And so we talked a little bit about the costs this season that are coming into production. And then yeah, as you mentioned we we couldn't uh couldn't have a conversation with somebody at the Maple Syrup Producers Association without asking them about um syrup and syrup quality and the bit of a PR situation they found themselves in at the end of this syrup season with our producer friend St. Chrisostum who's allegedly been cutting his syrup with sugar and so we're uh we're we're all a little bit un unhappy, I think, in the area to hear that somebody would do that.
SPEAKER_05Definitely has a bit of a bittersweet story.
SPEAKER_10Mm-hmm yeah it leaves a bit of an icky taste anyway in your mouth for sure.
David Hall of Hallacres Farm, and director with the Quebec Maple Syrup Producers federation
SPEAKER_10So here's David and I'll let him uh chat a little bit more about this season and uh some of the complications that have come into it. So I'm speaking with David Hall who is the um representative for the PPAQ or the producteur and product as Quebec the Maple Syrup Producers Association for the Montregie Est. And uh I'm assuming that right now you're uh you're you're a little bit tired.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Ross Powell Yeah I know it's um I'm really lucky my son takes care of most of the the nighttime checking and stuff but anyway.
SPEAKER_10Aaron Ross Powell So you don't have a small sugar operation you guys are are are are fairly large at this point. Medium I would say uh twenty f twenty five thousand roughly okay but you've been doing this your whole life yes so I could think of you as an expert can you explain this season?
SPEAKER_02Uh it's it's it's all about the weather. Um you know it either runs like hell or it's too cold.
SPEAKER_10Right.
SPEAKER_02Um there doesn't seem to be much in between to it. It either pours out of the trees like it's shot or it's frozen. Um seems to be the story of the year and the you know the people that I talk to it seems to be in the same type of thing.
SPEAKER_10So do you have a feeling that it's because it was such a cold long winter that the trees were just so cold they got through that first warm spell?
SPEAKER_02Yeah I live in a little bit of a cooler area than like in in the Montreux West. You know the same thing happened to us last year. Uh you know we had kind of a warm week and uh the one thing that hasn't happened this year that happened last year is the sugar cut break down. Uh you know for coming towards the end of the season the the sugar content is still quite decent. It's you know my son said this morning it was one point eight. You know we we had a lot of one point one, one point two one point three last year. It makes a huge difference how much syrup you make.
SPEAKER_10Yeah and I guess with the reverse osmosis those sorts of things now it must uh it must be making it a little bit easier to boil too if the sugar content's high.
SPEAKER_02Yeah I mean you know of course you know anybody that fills a car up with gas knows that heating heating oil and diesel and and um gas are expensive so we're trying to maximize what we can get out of the separator that's for sure.
SPEAKER_10Yeah I was gonna ask because I do know a couple of producers who are who actually their evaporators are uh oil fired and they've been telling me that it's this is an expensive year.
SPEAKER_02Yeah we're right around sixty bucks a barrel. Okay probably last year um our separator we've upgraded it uh we're probably in the same zone as last year but we're um we're sep separating significantly higher so you know it's it's uh it's just pure math whatever your sugar content is you divide into eighty six and so the higher your sugar content the less gallons of concentrate it takes to make a gallon of syrup.
SPEAKER_10Is it something you're hearing from other farmers too though that just I I don't know if you know anybody who's using oil evaporators.
SPEAKER_02I think they've sort of gone out of practice but 50% of the syrup in Quebec is made with oil.
SPEAKER_10Wow I had no idea it was that high.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_10So are we looking at a a bit of a difficult season certainly a long season but a bit of a difficult season and then higher oil prices are we looking at an increase in syrup costs?
SPEAKER_02The barrel price is set. So the you know there's not much we can do about it. You know uh you know it's kind of a four or five cent increase over last year on hindsight's an exact science um probably not enough but you know who knew this was going to happen? I mean it it started on the twenty eighth of February so you know it's just the timing is really lousy. You know it's probably like for us on three hundred and some odd barrels it's something like you know I don't think it'll be a ten thousand dollar hit. Okay. But it it it's you know in two thousand and twenty two it was expensive when Russia attacked Ukraine and the price went up you know it it was in a similar you know the uh the other forms of you know the the electricity is much cheaper per barrel but your capital costs are more um wood pellets have gone up in price um you have biomass, you know, but it you know and they all come with a cost. Uh you know you pay one way or the other either buy oil or you reinvest in the more expensive technology and um you know and straight wood doesn't you know it it doesn't walk into the shed and pile itself and unpile itself and if you're you know like the amount of wood we would need uh even separating high would be substantial and you know there's only so many hours in the day.
SPEAKER_10And this of course has been a really long season too so it gets exhausting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah I mean yeah for sure. You know people say wood doesn't cost anything. I said yeah maybe but I said it the last I knew because I boil with wood for thirty years, it doesn't walk out of the shed into the evaporator. I mean uh you know somebody has to do that.
SPEAKER_10You know it's for sure the the archers and stuff are much more efficient than they were but so your season is still going I'm assuming that means that people in a little bit further north in Quebec their season is still going as well.
SPEAKER_02Oh I think I hope so.
SPEAKER_10Because they would have started later too, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah we we started later than we have in a while but i you know it it's not um the worst thing was the nine or ten days we didn't produce kind of at the end of March when it was froze up that's you know that's kind of prime prime time for us. But it looks like we're gonna get through it um you know today we'll be at 80 some odd percent.
SPEAKER_10Aaron Ross Powell Okay. That's not so bad.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Ross Powell It's mostly due to the sugar content. You know we're we're trucking less and getting more syrup.
SPEAKER_10Aaron Ross Powell so people here said it started to cloud up at this point.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell the demand for the darker syrup is is is still is substantial. And um you know we're gonna make it until it doesn't go through the filter press. There's demand for all types of maple syrup and it seems to be getting larger all the time demand for industrial grades, you know, hand bacon beer as some type of uh organic or or a natural sweetener whereas the you know the color is much less important.
SPEAKER_10Aaron Ross Powell Right. So I guess we could say uh an interesting transition then to a bit of a different subject but uh there is demand for the darker syrups, those sorts of things, but we've now learned there's really not any demand for sort of bogus or fake syrup in Quebec.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Ross Powell I sure as hell hope not. It's um you know the sooner they put that guy in jail the better.
SPEAKER_10Aaron Ross Powell Yeah so that's the the Razio Canada report basically that has found the Sinkers Austin producers. Steve Bordeaux has been uh I I guess we can say allegedly he's cutting his uh his syrup with sugar.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell Well anyway he's been accused of it.
SPEAKER_10Uh-huh that's right.
SPEAKER_02You know I I mean uh you know I guess everybody and I'm not trying to lighten it or anything everybody is innocent until proven guilty, but it sure seems that from what I read and hear, you know, there's something going on.
SPEAKER_10Somebody has been tampering with syrup anyway. Exactly Okay. I I guess from the PPAQ's perspective then I I'm not sure how much we're able to say but what yeah what does this do for maple syrup and maple syrup producers?
SPEAKER_02I mean you know it just casts uh aspursion on eight thousand legitimate producers by one bad apple. You know the the work that we've done and purity and health and all this sort of thing, you know, in one fell swoop this guy can put it into question. You know I mean uh apparently Agriculture Canada is is the in the lead in trying to get to the bottom of it and at some point in time hopefully we we know the whole story and the and the scope of it.
SPEAKER_10Yeah because it's it's starting to look like the scope is getting much bigger.
SPEAKER_02They've they're finding more and more of these cans now, some of them with with stickers from different businesses on top and you know I I mean it it's for sure if you've bought some of this syrup, maybe you're gonna try and find a way to pass it through the system without trying to get your money back from from Mr. Bordo. You know, I as I say I'm not a lawyer. I'm just a kind of a dumb farmer and but you know uh I do know it isn't a good thing and um you know I I hope the full weight of the law is brought to bear if indeity is guilty.
SPEAKER_10Trevor Burrus I mean it's there there has to be some sort of a silver lining. Do you think maybe one of those silver linings could be that it's an opportunity to start talking about the importance of knowing your producers, especially if you're gonna go and try to buy from the farm from you know that that knowing where you're getting your syrup from is important?
SPEAKER_02A hundred percent there's absolutely no doubt if you want to make sure you're getting pure maple syrup, go to go to your you know your local producer. But you know it's easier said than done. You know two bucks a liter do you want to drive a car from downtown Montreal fight the traffic and come to my place and buy a gallon of syrup? You know I'm realistic. I mean it's you know I it would be great. Every come on everybody come to my place. But is it realistic? Um are people equipped to to to sell in larger volumes um we all seem to have our regular customers and you know we always try and get a few more but as I say when I became aware of it I I was not a happy camper. It's um is it just uh a type of promotion that we don't need. You know we have to explain ourselves and one bad apple can sure go to monkey wrench and things.
SPEAKER_10Well hopefully it's not something that lasts Yeah hopefully not but you don't think this is going to change any sort of policy as far as people selling direct from their farms, making sure that they're testing syrup, that sort of thing we don't need to go there yet, do we?
SPEAKER_02Personally I don't think so um you know we as a PPAQ test a certain amount of random cans. Uh at one time MAPAC MAP the Minister of Agriculture used to you know I don't know what their protocol is now uh if they still when they do a food inspection at a store grab a can of syrup and and test it you know I I'm not sure. But when it comes to I I've been led to believe when it comes to adulteration it's an agriculture canada purview.
SPEAKER_10Right. Okay.
SPEAKER_02When the MAPAC tests it normally you know they test it for color and thickness making sure the label corresponds you know it has the right information on it. Um but you know I'm sure if it tastes wonky they would they would go further.
SPEAKER_10So I guess we can all be happy then that this uh Radio Canada journalist has got good taste knows what maple should taste like and well hopefully like I said hopefully this doesn't sour everybody's taste for syrup. I'm sure it won't because it's just too good.
SPEAKER_02That that's my feeling but I'm a producer I'm converted for sure.
SPEAKER_10All right well I hope the rest of the season I hope it keeps going for you I hope you get a little bit more time and maybe this weather report for this week isn't quite so warm as they're maybe saying it will be and you get another little bit of a run. Yeah well thank you very much for having me and great talking thank you thank you very very much have a great day so that was uh that was David Hall a snippet of David Hall in my conversation he is the Montragie est representative for the Maple Syrup Producers Association of Quebec. Yeah you know he he's a little bit further north than we are but uh here in the Au Saint-Laurent especially today it's really hot it's beautiful and it's sunny and spring is definitely here and so that's pretty much the end of our maple syrup season I think our producers are going to start cleaning up in the next few weeks. And yeah uh as as far as everyone else is concerned our our our farmers are getting ready to go and uh yeah it's it's it's definitely spring is on it's go time that's where the thoughts are right it's it's time to go pretty soon as soon as the land rises out and that's gonna be really the first impact
SPEAKER_05for farmers is because they're gonna have to f fill up their tanks for the diesel for the tractors and the and the pickup trucks and the other equipment that they use, um, which is pretty similar to consumers, right? Uh we've all had to look at uh gas prices that have gone up uh forty, maybe even fifty cents by the time we get to the end of this week. But I guess the major concern is down the line is that if this continues, those those costs are going to extend out through the supply chain, the processors who have to pay more for their energy costs, the processors that then have to distribute the supermarkets, and they'll all want their margin, and of course uh many farmers are typically price takers, uh what's given to them rather than price makers. And so the I think this is where a lot of the concern comes for how is this going to impact me in six months, even if things settle down, which you know is still an open question, and what's that going to to do to my margins? Because of course the supermarkets and the distributors and the processors are gonna try and pass that on, not only up to the compu consumers, but also down to those people who supply them and of course the farmers are at the bottom end of that chain. So there's still a long way to go in this discussion and the impacts and I suppose God for forbid that it continues longer such that it's extends out into fertilizer prices next year, right? Which generally it's in October, November when farmers start to book in on those supplies. But we're fairly lucky uh if you're a farmer in Australia, you're not only looking at higher prices, you're looking at lack of supply because most of their oil comes uh comes through uh the Strait of Hormuz whereas most of our oil comes from North America. So um there there's still a long way to go in this uh this story um and all we can hope for is that the weather is going to be fantastic.
SPEAKER_10Well and on that note they're saying that we might be in for a a kind of a a a very hot dry summer with a wicked El Nino. So I I you know I think spring is a time that we can all be a little bit hopeful. So maybe that's what we need going into this season is just a little bit of hope.
SPEAKER_05All right let's let's close on that hopeful out.
SPEAKER_08There we go. Thank you for joining us for the latest episode of the Farm to Food Podcast presented to you by Dejardet. We will have lots more about farming and all things agri-food in the coming weeks and we'd like to thank our partners for helping bring this initiative to life the Livestock Breeders Association in Ormstown and Quinn Farm in Notre Dame the Ibeho for promotional support.
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